nekontrolirana vzreja

roxa · 11172

roxa

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: 28 September 2006, 18:37:27
rada bi mal spregovorila o tej zadevi, ker jaz imam občutek, da je pri nas tega res preveč...pse parijo vsepovprek..tudi sorodstveni in mislim, da je treba to začeti zakonsko reševati...psi izgubljajo na kvaliteti...premalo dobrih vzrediteljev...itd...ž


je pri nas res toliko neresnega pristopa do teh stvari... :(

+1



Neyka

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Odgovori #1 : 29 September 2006, 12:54:34
Roxa...tega dejansko je čedalje več.

Na žalost tudi pri rodovniških psih. T.i. vzreditelj pogleda samo psa in njegov izgled, preveri sorodstvo (če ga) nekaterim uspe preverit še obvezna zdravstvena testiranja za pasmo. Kaj je linija psa večina vzrediteljev niti ne ve več. Parijo tisto kar jim je trenutno všeč itd itn.

Je pa z zakonom marsikaj določeno samo ali zakona nihče ne pozna, če ga pa že ga pa ne upošteva.

Primer...neke pasme je v Sloveniji malo manj...na vzrejnega pripeljejo psico brez zob. Sprva dobi pogojno vzrejno dovoljenje, po prvem leglu pripelje par mladičkov (mislim da mora biti pregledana 1/3 legla), ki imajo vse zobe in dobi popolno vzrejno dovoljenje. Pari se jo vsako leto do določene starosti. ekaj njenih mladičev je brez zob, nekaj jih prenaša gen za manjkajoče zobovje. A je to cilj vzreje? Psi brez zob? Ne, ampak se dogaja, zato ker je "predstavnikov pasme malo v Sloveniji".

Pojavljajo se parjenja v bližnjem sorodstvu (prvo, drugo koleno), parjenje obolelih psov ker testiranje za določeno bolezen ni obvezno (pa čeprav lastniki vedo za bolezni) vejca tri pikce In vse to se dogaja zakaj? Ker je zakonska osnova slaba, ker se še tistih zakonov ki so napisani ne upošteva ali pa razlaga hudo po svoje.

Očitno bo treba pasme popolnoma uničiti, da se bo še kdo potrudil za pasmo in ne le zato da pač pari pse in sam sebe imenuje vzreditelj.

Veliko nas misli podobno...ampak kaj pa lahko dejansko naredimo razen da se sami v primeru da se odločimo za vzrejo ozavestimo in potrudimo za pse in pasmo.

Še ena stvar ki je žalostna pa je, da o tem, da je vzreja zgrešena razmišljajo tudi ljudje, ki sami zavedno ali nezavedno delajo napake. Dokler bo tako, pri vzreji ne bo izboljšanj.

+1

telo medveda omiljeno gibčnostjo tjulnja; vesele in iskrive oči delfina ter srce, ki je bilo tako mehko, tako zvesto in tako polno ljubezni, kot je bilo lahko le srce novofundlandca!

http://myneon.webs.com
http://neyka-neon.moj-album.com


roxa

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Odgovori #2 : 29 September 2006, 16:53:19
vesela sem ,da se je še kdo oglasil, ker jaz sem ful razočarana....tu je tko veliko težav....ki jih je NUJNO začeti reševati....pa najbolj me moti to, da se vzrejno dobi tko po lahki poti-prej ni blo tko....matr >:( psi izgubljkano linijo..recimo bokserji....že 5 let nisem vedela dobrega zdravega bokserja...o sorodstvenem parjenju da ne govorim....itd



ninci

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Odgovori #3 : 07 Oktober 2006, 11:39:41
Hja največji problem je kje začeti z reševanjem problema. Na KZS-ju? Ker se mi zdi, da oni problema ne vidijo. Pa vzreja komisija... pa  nekateri vzreditelji ups šteparji, pa naivni kupci, pa ... največji problem je kje začeti z reševanjem tega problema. Govorim o rodovniški vzreji, ker se mi zdi da je v to smer tudi postavljeno tvoje vprašanje.


Lp nina



*LuNa*

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Odgovori #4 : 07 Oktober 2006, 22:03:20
KZS bi definitivno morala kaj storiti, tudi na ravni pasemskih društev, kjer je ogromno kuhinje in posledično tudi slabe vzreje. Če vsem psicam recimo pripišejo samca iz točno določene psarne, pa čeprav dobrih samcev iz drugih vzrej ne manjka, je pač slabo.

Se mi pa zdi, da k vedno slabši kvaliteti veliko pripomorejo tudi t.i. industrijski vzreditelji, ki imajo po več legel letno in seveda velike psarne. Dvomim, da so tam psice in mladički res deležni tega, čemur se reče dobra vzreja.

Psarna Lunca's - vzreja labradorcev
http://luncas.vovk.si


Neyka

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Odgovori #5 : 07 Oktober 2006, 23:52:58
Ma meni se zdijo glavnoi problem t.i. naivni kupci. Pa ne da bi manjkalo ozaveščanja...tega ni tako malo ampak na žalost je večina t.i. naivnih kupcev zelo "pametnih" in si razen s labo (oz. večimi slabimi) izkušnjo (izkušnjami) ne dajo nič dopovedati.

Drugače pa tisti ki imajo več psov se mogoče res ne morejo vsakemu posebej posvetiti vsako minuto dnevno. Ne morem pa trditi da se psom godi slabo in da so za kaj prikrajšani ker ima vzreditelj več legel letno. Ali še huje da je vzreja zato slaba in da se mladičem slabo godi. Obstaja veliko število psarn, ki vzrejajo dobre pse in imajo za pse, ki so doma zelo lepo poskrbljeno in jim popolnoma nič ne manjka čeprav jih je več. Seveda obstajajo tudi takšni, ki imajo doma več psov (po možnosti različnih pasem), ki jih pač parijo s prvim psom za katerega si rečejo o tale zgleda OK. NE MOREMO pa tega posplošiti na vse vzreditelje z več psi, ki imajo več legel letno.

telo medveda omiljeno gibčnostjo tjulnja; vesele in iskrive oči delfina ter srce, ki je bilo tako mehko, tako zvesto in tako polno ljubezni, kot je bilo lahko le srce novofundlandca!

http://myneon.webs.com
http://neyka-neon.moj-album.com


roxa

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Odgovori #6 : 26 Oktober 2006, 18:55:53
srž problema je v vzrejnih referentih



Neyka

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Odgovori #7 : 26 Oktober 2006, 19:48:53
srž problema je v vzrejnih referentih

In ti so krivi česa?

telo medveda omiljeno gibčnostjo tjulnja; vesele in iskrive oči delfina ter srce, ki je bilo tako mehko, tako zvesto in tako polno ljubezni, kot je bilo lahko le srce novofundlandca!

http://myneon.webs.com
http://neyka-neon.moj-album.com


Lanabela

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Odgovori #8 : 26 Oktober 2006, 20:48:25
Tam, kjer je kinološka zavest malce bolj razvita kot pri nas - torej kupci dobro vedo, kje se psa kupuje in kje ne, vzrediteljem pa je jasno da odgovarjajo za to kar vzredijo in prav tako jim je jasno da bodo lahko zaprli štacuno če bodo vzrejali zanič mladiče...tam neke vzrejne komisije ki bi kaj prepovedovala sploh ne rabijo (in jih tudi nimajo).
Vzrejna komisija lahko naredi neko grobo selekcijo, predvsem pa naj bi bila njena vloga svetovalna. Vse ostalo je stvar vzreditelja in kupca.
 


roxa

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Odgovori #9 : 05 November 2006, 20:27:48
In ti so krivi česa?

slabega ocenjevanja psov...in posledično vzrejnega dovoljenja..ostala zgodba je znana...
vzrejni referent mora biti profesionalec, definitivno knolog in za vsake pasme (skupine pasem, recimo lovski psi) posebej...ne pa da so to vzreditelji, veterinarji (dobro je če je tudi veterinar, ampak ne samo to)...

mah..pse sploh ne znajo oceniti...samo poglejte kaj so nardili z bokserji....
pa to je katastrofa :'( >:(



Neyka

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Odgovori #10 : 05 November 2006, 20:42:52
roxa verjetno misliš vzrejno komisijo - vzrejni referent samo popiše leglo (mogoče še kaj uglavnem ocenjevanja nima čez) - pa me je to malo zmedlo  :-[

telo medveda omiljeno gibčnostjo tjulnja; vesele in iskrive oči delfina ter srce, ki je bilo tako mehko, tako zvesto in tako polno ljubezni, kot je bilo lahko le srce novofundlandca!

http://myneon.webs.com
http://neyka-neon.moj-album.com


Lanabela

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Odgovori #11 : 06 November 2006, 12:25:56
Ja, marsikdo tiste iz vzrejne komisije obtoži slabega ocenjevanja. Sem videla hude izpade lastnikov na lastne oči. Ker so pri psu opisali tudi napake, ki so jih sodniki na razstavah gladko spregledali. Sicer pa v vzrejnih komisijah so strokovnjaki - sodniki, ki so ponavadi tudi vzreditelji. Komisije za različne pasme se med seboj močno razlikujejo, prav tako kvaliteta njihovega dela. Tako da bi bilo treba očitke o slabem delu nasloviti na točno določeno komisijo. Splošno pljuvanje je brezpredmetno. Kaj konkretno naj bi se dogajalo z bokserji prav posebej pri nas pojma nimam. Zdi se mi, da se pasma razvija v smer, ki mnogim ni všeč, samo da za to ni kriva slovenska vzreja ampak gre za precej bolj razširjan trend.

Vzrejni referent leglo popiše, tudi ugotavlja nekatere nepravilnosti pri mladičih, ponavadi še odstrani slednike, če je to potrebno, ponavadi mladiče kasneje tudi potetovira. Tudi sporoči naprej če so slučajno psica in mladiči v neprimernih razmerah. Pa seveda kaj svetuje vzreditelju če je potrebno.


Lena

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Odgovori #12 : 06 November 2006, 13:24:15
Sama še najbolje poznam sceno pri Amstaffih. O tem, da je v Sloveniji umetnost dobit rodovniškega Amstaffka, kvalitetnega pa sploh, ne bi niti zgubljala besed.
Je pa na področju te pasme živa katastrofa tudi na Hrvaškem. Psi so sparjeni med sabo vse povprek, isti psi se pojavljajo v vseh rodovnikih, nedolgo nazaj sem ugotovila celo to, da imam v rodovniku psico z HD D.
Pa saj je ogromno pasem, ki so jih zafurali ne samo bokserji, npr. nemški ovčarji.
Stvar pri nas bi se morala začet reševat v sami htemeljih. Spisat nov kvaliteten zakon in pravilnik, predvsem pa določit visoke kazni za kršitve. Seveda pa brez izvajanja zakona ne gre, tukaj se pa pri nas zalomi, pa ne samo v kinologiji.

Hm, zakaj sem že jaz  sterilizirala Leno?

+1


Lanabela

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Odgovori #13 : 06 November 2006, 14:34:41
Kolikor mi je znano so nemce uničili kar v njihovi matični državi in ne pri nas. Pa imajo ravno za to pasmo posebej strog pravilnik.

Nasprotno od tebe trdim, da se problema ne rešuje z nekim kaj vem kakšnim zakonom. Kako pa boš vzrejo stlačila v zakon prosim lepo. Nekoč so nekaj poskušali (ne pri nas) pa je izpadlo tako, da bi morali prepovedati vzrejo psov v nekaterih barvah (merle in harlekin sta bili že med njimi, pa še nekaj povsem neproblematičnih je bilo vmes), pa en kup pasem naj bi prepovedali vzrejati ker se revčki mučijo (zanimivo da so našli kup neumnih in neosnovanih primerov, nekaterih resnično hudih pa ni bilo notri)

Kaj pa boš? Kar povprek in z grožnjo kazni  prepovedala parjenje v sorodstvu? Pa čeprav bi šlo za odlično in zelo varno kombinacijo? In kje boš postavila mejo? Malo nazaj so si itak vsi v sorodu. Itd. In bolj ko bo nov zakon butast in neživljenski, manj se ga bodo ljudje držali.

Po moje se zadevo lahko premika na bolje samo lepo počasi z vzgojo vzrediteljev in kupcev. Ponekod se prav dobro obnese sistem, da se vzrediteljem prav malo gleda pod prste kaj parijo s čim in zakaj. Samo za rezultat svoje vzreje odgovarjajo. Če prodajo bolnega psa, plačujejo kupcem take odškodnine, da drugič raje dobro premislijo v kaj se bodo spustili. Če si bodo sploh še upali pariti - ker slab glas se hitro razširi in pametni kupci se takemu vzreditelju raje na široko ognejo.


Lena

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Odgovori #14 : 06 November 2006, 14:42:35
Citiraj
Nasprotno od tebe trdim, da se problema ne rešuje z nekim kaj vem kakšnim zakonom. Kako pa boš vzrejo stlačila v zakon prosim lepo
Govorim predvsem o pravilih pri pridobivanju vzrejnega dovoljenja in sankcioniranju kršenja. Seveda pa gre tu za zdravstvene hibe ali težave psov. Pred časom se je na enem forumu govorilo o na eno uho gluhem dalmatincu z vzrejnim dovoljenjem.

Kar pa se nemcev tiče, je pa samo primer "uničene" pasme. Tudi mi imamo to srečo, da imamo avtohtone pasme in s tem kar se pri nas dogaja, lahko kaj hitro uničimo tudi njih.


skar

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Odgovori #15 : 06 November 2006, 15:00:36
Popolnoma se strinjam z Lanabello.
Naša vrla avtohtona pasma pa sploh ne obstaja več - razen na papirju. Smo jo uničili že pred leti.
In še nekaj: nič nimam proti linijski ali celo incestni vzreji. Incest seveda ne vsepovprek, izjemoma pa vsekakor. Več kot uporabno v primeru, ko imamo TIPIČNE in ZDRAVE  predstavnike pasme zelo redko posejane in je preostanek baze, čeprav številčen, genetsko precej neuporaben. 



ninci

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Odgovori #16 : 06 November 2006, 15:17:17
Citiraj
Pred časom se je na enem forumu govorilo o na eno uho gluhem dalmatincu z vzrejnim dovoljenjem.

Ah najbrž ne samo enega pa ne samo dalamtinca, kaj pa dogosi, pa bullterierji?. Koliko psov, bele barve in pasem, ki so bolj podvrženi gluhosti pa ima opravljen BEAR test? Malo oz. v zadnjem času nekatere svetle izjeme. Test ni obvezen, niti te nihče ne vpraša če pes sliši :-\ tako ga pač opravijo samo tisti, ki jim je nekaj do pasme oz. kvalitetne vzreje.

Lp nina



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Odgovori #17 : 06 November 2006, 15:31:50
BEAR test je pri nas možno opravljati šele v zadnjem času, pa še to ne vedno kadar bi si kdo želel. Da se nekaj predpiše kot obvezno, mora biti tudi dosegljivo. Je pa z gliuhostjo žal tako, da se bo pri teh pasmah pojavljala ne glede na izločanje gluhih toliko časa, dokler se bodo  pasme vzrejale v tej barvi. Če bi začeli vzrejati v črni variante npr, bi gluhosti v hipu ne bilo več. (kar seveda ne pomeni, da zdaj pa naj kar parijo gluhe pse, po možnosti še med seboj)


roxa

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Odgovori #18 : 06 November 2006, 17:17:20
hmmm...

tibetanske pasme imajo teste recimo zdaj, ki so nujni....bokserji so bolni in PREDGRIZAVi in pred časom sem govorila z enim človekom, ki obvlada pasmo (mednarodni sodnik) in je rekel, da pasma propada...zarad nekontrolirane vzreje...

v slo je zelo malo dobrih vzrediteljev-lahko preštejemna eno roko-drugim se gre za denar in ne ohraniti pasmo...

dalmatinci..pri njih skor vsak že zahteva test gluhosti, da ne rečem o agresivnosti pasme, kar je posledica slabe sorodstvene vzreje.... >:(

vzrejen komisije so slabe in neprofesionalne in se počasi že sprašujem ALI SE TEŽI K DOSEGI-PRIBLIŽKU PASME STANDARDU ALI NE?




Lanabela

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Odgovori #19 : 06 November 2006, 19:42:53
kakšna pa je tvoja kinološka izobrazba? Si mogoče sodnica za katero od pasem ali za delo, da lahko tako vehementno sodiš o strokovnosti in profesionalnosti drugih?


Neyka

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Odgovori #20 : 06 November 2006, 20:46:17
roxa so ti že lepo napisali da posploševat ne moreš - je bil moj pes čisto konkretno ocenjen (ima A vzrejno oceno sicer, ker za B (pogojna) vseeno ni) mi je pa sodnik jasno povedal da če ocene nebi mela iz razstave bi kasirala prav dobro zaradi napak ki jih pes pač ima.

Edino kar meni ni všeč je takšna lahkota pri pridobivanju A vzrejne ocene iz B pogojne  >:( (Na primer - recimo B dobi pes brez zob, ko ga parijo da mladiče kakršne da, tretjino tistih z vsemi zobmi pripeljejo pokazat in imajo kar A oceno in veselo parijo dalje, medtem ko kakšen lastnik sploh ne ve, da je kateri od staršev njegovega psa brez zob slučajno  >:( >:( >:()

telo medveda omiljeno gibčnostjo tjulnja; vesele in iskrive oči delfina ter srce, ki je bilo tako mehko, tako zvesto in tako polno ljubezni, kot je bilo lahko le srce novofundlandca!

http://myneon.webs.com
http://neyka-neon.moj-album.com


sirtaki

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Odgovori #21 : 07 November 2006, 10:35:58
Zanimivo, eni ste trdno fiksirani na problem števila zob, drugi na zdravje itd...vsi imate po malem prav.
Veste kaj je pa najbolj zanimivo? Da tam, kjer so se skoncentrirali samo na zdravje/stanje zob itd samo, so kar naenkrat imeli predstavnike pasem, ki so bili to le po rodovniku...po videzu pa vse drugo.

Mene še vedno zanima a je slovenski folk tako primitiven ali kaj, da vedno krivijo nekoga drugega, če dobijo mladiča, ki je bolan, netipičnega videza in značaja za pasmo? Kaj pa malce podrobnejše poglabljanje v pasmo samo pred nakupom, študiranje kaj je na voljo pri nas in kaj v tujini, obiski čimveč legel, debate s tistimi, ki imajo legla itd...? Tisti osnovni koraki, ki morajo biti storjeni, še preden se odločiš za nakup mladiča. Pa čeprav le za takega, ki se bo do konca življenja valjal po kavču.

Za tiste, ki pa vzrejate in se razburjate - bodite pametno tiho, pazite, da so vaše paritvene kombinacije take, da ne bodo pripomogle k tistemu procentu, ki "uničuje" vašo pasmo, pazite komu boste prodali mladiče in predvsem skušajte jih spremljati tudi potem, ko prejmete tisti denar za njih. Nadzor nad kvaliteto vzreje v neki pasmi se VEDNO začne pri tistemu, ki proda mladiča.

+1



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Odgovori #22 : 07 November 2006, 13:11:56
Natančno tako. Namesto da bi vsak pometel pred svojim pragom in da bi se počasi navadili na to, da smo za svoja dejanja sami odgovorni se stalno zgovarjamo na druge. Kadar je kaj narobe. Ko gre v redu je to itak samo naša zasluga. Pa vse bi nam morali drugi h riti prinesti, da bi pa sami malo okrog sebe pogledali - ne, to je pa že preveč.

Vzreja ni tako preprosta zadeva, ker idealnih psov brez napak preprosto ni. Psa, ki se ga ocenjuje je vedno treba gledati kot celoto. Ki jo sestavlja tako zdravstveno stanje, karakter, konstitucija  in tip. Tisti, ki s psi prvenstveno delamo, dajemo prednost predvsem konstituciji, tisti ki bolj razstavljajo pa tipu. Karakter in zdravje naj bi bilo enako pomembno za oboje. Imamo pse, ki so visoke kvalitete, a imajo neko večjo takoj vidno napako. In potem imamo pse, ki nekih hudih napak sicer nimajo, so pa v celoti gledano nekvalitetni. Od prvih se z pazljivo izbrano kombinacijo da dobiti dobre potomce, od drugih nikoli.

Kar pa se tiče nepopolnega zobovja, ponavadi se tolerira (če se, odvisno od pasme) pomanjkanje tamalih predmeljakov. Smatra se, da to ni neka degeneracija, ampak  ti zobje pri psih počasi krnijo, nekako tako kot naši modrostni zobje. Funkcije že davno nimajo več, edino psice z njimi lažje in lepše pregriznejo popkovnico pri mladičih.
Predgrizavost pa je posledica krajšanja gobca, ker se obe čeljusti ne krajšata enako hitro. Koliko se tolerira predgrizavost pri kratkogobčnih pasmah pa se ponavadi dogovorijo v pasemskih klubih.

V bistvu niti ni tako pomembno ali je napisana v vzrejni knjižici ocena A ali B. Tisto kar je pomembno imaš napisano na ocenjevalnem listu. In v tistem predalčku v vzrejni knjižici kjer so označene pomanjklivosti. In glede na to se odločaš za paritvene kombinacije. Tisti, ki v poznavanju rodovnikov in linij pri svoji pasmi nismo neki vrhunski strokovnjaki, lahko za mnenje vprašamo nekoga, ki to je. Zaradi tega še nobenemu ni krona z glave padla.


Neyka

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Odgovori #23 : 07 November 2006, 18:55:26
Lanabela in Sirtaki - z obema se strinjam

Primer z zobmi sem dala pa primer - obstaja še nekaj stvari ki me (pri njufih) motijo.

 
V bistvu niti ni tako pomembno ali je napisana v vzrejni knjižici ocena A ali B. Tisto kar je pomembno imaš napisano na ocenjevalnem listu. In v tistem predalčku v vzrejni knjižici kjer so označene pomanjklivosti.

Jaz si lastim samo kartonček na katerem pišejo podatki psa in "A" - vzrejne ocene v opisu pa videla nisem nikoli edino sudja mi je povzetek povedal  ;D

telo medveda omiljeno gibčnostjo tjulnja; vesele in iskrive oči delfina ter srce, ki je bilo tako mehko, tako zvesto in tako polno ljubezni, kot je bilo lahko le srce novofundlandca!

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Lanabela

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Odgovori #24 : 08 November 2006, 13:06:33
No pri psicah je v knjižici  en predalček kamor napišejo tudi poglavitne napake. Če imaš to srečo, da predalček ostane prazen ne pomeni da je psica brez napak ampak da so napake manjše. Katere so ti sodnik pove (pa tudi slišiš ga ko narekuje, razen medtem ko tečeš, še več izveš, če vlečeš na ušesa kaj se sodniki pogovarjajo med seboj.). Ocenjevalnega lista sicer res ne dobiš, vendar ne vidim vzroka da ti ga ne bi dali za prebrati ali ti kasneje poslali kopije če jih prosiš za to. Bistveno je, da veš kakšne so napake tvojega psa in kakšen je njihov vpliv na vzrejo (odlike itak poznaš - oz si jih zapomniš v trenutku ko zanje slišiš za vse večne čase) ne pa to ali so kje napisane in v kakšni obliki. Poleg  tega se lahko ob kakšni priložnosti, po možnosti takrat ko nima kakšnega nujnega dela, (recimo na kakšnem pikniku) s sodnikom tudi povsem neuradno pomeniš in ti pove kaj, kar si mogoče preslišala. Pa malo pokomentirata oceno.


*LuNa*

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Odgovori #25 : 08 November 2006, 18:53:19
Ocenjevalnega lista sicer res ne dobiš, vendar ne vidim vzroka da ti ga ne bi dali za prebrati ali ti kasneje poslali kopije če jih prosiš za to.
Mi smo že na samem vzrejnem dobili tudi kopijo ocenjevalnega lista. Pa tudi se mi zdi prav tako.

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mefisto

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Odgovori #26 : 16 November 2006, 18:31:19

Tole sem našla in mi je takooo všeč, da ga mora pripopat še sem:

By Sierra Milton
What do most modern-day breeders and the Mafia have in common? What a strange question, you may say. It is, sadly though, a very real commonality. The answer is simply what Padgett, a well-known geneticist refers to as the “Code of Silence” for breeders and perhaps more commonly discussed as “omerta” for the Costa Nostra. Both are deadly silences. It’s easy to understand the reasons for the conspiracy of silence when it refers to criminals, but what reasons can a breeder possibly have for maintaining “omerta”?
The reason most often given for not sharing genetic information is the fear of being made the object of a “witch hunt.” It lies much deeper though. It begins with ownership and the human need to see what one owns as being the best. Remember the “keeping up with the Jones” mentality? Everyone wants the very best and the accolade of owning the best. Admitting that what one owns or has bred may have faults is difficult for most people. Also at fault is the huge financial and emotional investment that breeders have in their dogs. Discovering that there may be defects in the sires and dams that breeders have so much of themselves invested in becomes frightening and causes many to refuse to even contemplate that their dogs may possess defective genes. Egos and fear of being labelled “poor breeders” are ultimately the reasons for breeders maintaining this detrimental code of silence.
Even more dangerous than the Code of Silence though is the refusal to contemplate defective genes may exist within a breeding program and be present for generations, quietly meshing through many bloodlines before manifesting itself. Could it be possible that dogs which appear healthy can actually be spreading dangerous, sometimes lethal genes throughout the breed community until finally two healthy, but gene-defective carriers combine to produce that first tell-tale affected offspring?
Of course it is and time and again the geneticists tell us how this is possible.
Simplistically, breeders cannot see defective genes and what they don’t see must not exist. Therefore using that logic, all the untested dogs must be as beautifully healthy inside as they are structurally beautiful outside. If only that logic were true! Unfortunately, far more emphasis is placed upon structural and superficial beauty simply because it is something that is easily seen, acknowledged and obtained. It’s also something without any “unnecessary” financial investments. One doesn’t need to pay for x-rays or blood tests or specialists’ knowledge in order to evaluate how a dog conforms to a physical standard.
The real danger, though, comes not from those dogs who are tested, but from those breeders who keep their heads in the sand and refuse to believe that their dogs could be less than 'perfect'. We can begin to fix that which we reveal, but that which remains hidden is a threat to the future. But here omerta, that “Code of Silence” is very evident. Not only do these breeders hold fast to the belief that their dogs are untainted by defective genes, structural defects or temperament problems, but they also believe that no dog that they choose to bring into their breeding program through mating with their dogs could possibly be carriers either. After all, they only “breed to the best,” and of course, that best just has to be perfect.
Now the truly criminal act occurs. These breeders are quite often very successful in the show ring; their dogs are thought to be the best – after all, they have ribbons and placings and titles to prove how worthy their dogs are! Because of their show ring success, they are seen as breed authorities, people that newcomers to the breed trust for knowledge and information. And the information these newcomers get is that there are no genetic problems to be concerned with, no need to do that “expensive testing when the dogs are all healthy.” Even more disastrous to the breed’s future is that these breeders’ attitudes begin to prevail. The newcomers see the success of these breeders’ dogs and buy them (even though few, if any, have had even the most rudimentary testing for structural faults, poor health or defective genes). The newcomers then have a financial and emotional investment to protect which begins to spread this attitude, with predictable results. Soon, because these breeders are the “powers” within the breed (quite often judges, people selected to discuss the breed at seminars, breeders who command respective prices for puppies and stud fees, breeders seen winning), they use this “power” to ensure that it becomes unethical to discuss any defects, in either health or temperament, found in any of the pedigrees of their sires, dams or progeny of their sires or dams. All too often one hears “I don’t dare say anything if I want to win” or “there are three lines with epilepsy (or heart or eye or pick a health problem), but you don’t need to know about them.” Of course we need to know about them, how else are we to make intelligent decisions about which dogs would best benefit the future we plan for our dogs unless we consider not only the structural beauty, but also the hidden genetics that we are attempting to also improve?
What about the breeders who openly discuss the defects found in their own dogs? Unfortunately, they are all too often labelled as “poor breeders” and their dogs said to be “defective”. They are shunned and spoken of in whispers and sneers. The very fact that these breeders are striving to share knowledge openly and to scientifically test their dogs make these breeders the subject of witch hunts by the very people who are either too cheap, too unconcerned, too egotistical, too uncaring about the future to even test their dogs, much less have the courage to honestly discuss their dogs. Instead of applauding these breeders who choose to share information, these breeders become shunned and hounded. As a result, and because human nature makes us want to be part of a group instead of outside the group, breeders begin to do what they do best – they maintain silence and lie or refuse to admit what they do know.
As more and more newcomers join a breed and inexperienced breeders and exhibitors all jump on the bandwagon of showing, owning and practicing the art of breeding, they turn to the breeders who are winning, equating winning with superior quality dogs. The breeders are, therefore, more determined to have nothing bad revealed about any of their dogs, further establishing in their minds the perfection of the dogs they breed and further increasing the financial and emotional investment that they have in perpetuating this theory. Winning in the show ring has nothing to do with genetic health. Indeed, a number of the winning dogs are carriers of genetic disorders at the least and, in some instances, are known to have genetic health disorders. While a genetic disorder itself, depending upon type and severity, should never preclude the dog from the genetic pool, it is absolutely mandatory that people be aware of any area of concern in order to breed intelligently. At the very least, the dogs that the dog is bred to must be tested and their backgrounds looked at carefully to limit the possibility of affecting more dogs or making more dogs carriers of the disorder. Yet, because the winners don’t want to be labelled as “poor breeders” and lose the accolade of being the best (as well as the possible financial loss in not being able to sell puppies or stud fees at as high a price), the “Code of Silence” becomes even more firmly embraced.
The newcomers, because they want to be accepted, avoid talking about the sires and dams that produce poorly, whether it is structure, health or temperament problems. Also, they too now have a financial and emotional investment in addition to wanting to be accepted into the “winners club.” They may even recognize trends in one or more lines in their own pedigrees, but refuse to acknowledge these trends and keep them secret for fear of being labelled.
Often, the breeders, while not openly acknowledging that there are any problems, will attempt to dilute the possibility of the disorder rearing its head by out-breeding to another totally different line. Dr. Jerold Bell, a well-known geneticist, has this to say about this method: “Repeated out-breeding to attempt to dilute detrimental recessive genes is not a desirable method of genetic disease control. Recessive genes cannot be diluted; they are either present or not. Out-breeding carriers multiples and further spreads the defective gene(s) in the gene pool. If a dog is a known carrier or has high carrier risk through pedigree analysis, it can be retired from breeding, and replaced with one or two quality offspring. Those offspring should be bred, and replaced with quality offspring of their own, with the hope of losing the defective gene.”
Unfortunately, refusing to acknowledge or test for genetic disorders doesn’t make them go away. What we can’t see still has a huge impact on the breed and continuing to breed these carriers of defective genes allows the defect to take a firmer hold in the breed. Those breeders who try very hard to breed healthy dogs and take every scientific precaution to ensure genetic health are shunned for the very passion that should be applauded; the efforts they take are trivialized at best and more often ridiculed as “unnecessary” or “fear-mongering.” As a result, these breeders work alone and, outside of their own kennel, their efforts make little impact on the breed as a whole.
Omerta can only be broken by people who have the courage, conviction and passion to ensure that the breed as a whole becomes stronger and healthier. Instead of witch hunts for those who have the heartache of dealing with the problems, the goal of applauding those with the courage and determination to speak out openly should be taken up by every breed club in every country. Awards in addition to those given to breeders who have the most winning dogs should be given to those breeders who work tirelessly to improve the breed. Prettiness and beauty doesn’t improve a breed; genetic health and the ability to live a pain-free, healthy life far surpass beauty, but are more difficult to obtain.
The cost of genetic testing is not high when one looks at the effects that refusing to test may have on the breed. Ask any knowledgeable breeder whose breed has rampant heart, blood disorder, eye or hip problems whether they blame the lack of foresight and the refusal of past breeders in making a further financial investment in the breed for the almost insurmountable problems now and the answer is predictable. In the UK, it is possible to do testing by certified specialists for hip, elbow, eye, heart, blood, immune disorders for around a total investment of Ł295.00 (far less in the United States), less than a cost of a puppy or a stud fee. It’s possible to do far less testing, but at what cost? Will the breed suffer from heart problems in the future because a simple Ł7.50 stethoscope test (done through one of the breed-sponsored heart clinics, in this case the Boxer) was not important at the time? Will the breed be faced with trying to eradicate blindness years from now because a Ł16.00 eye exam (done through one of the many eye clinics held each month or free if done at Crufts dog show at the clinic they hold each year) was thought unwarranted? Will the descendants be filled with pain from bad hips and/or elbows because the breed moved well in the show ring and didn’t look dysplastic to the naked eye? (X-rays necessary for hip and elbow evaluations are the most expensive testing at a cost of approximately Ł110 for hips and an additional Ł80 for elbows when done with the hips; unfortunately it takes six different films to evaluate elbows and the cost reflects the number of films necessary.) Testing for things such as von Willebrand’s Disease (vWD) and thyroid testing (immune system) can be done inexpensively as blood tests at perhaps Ł30 and Ł50 each. Granted, testing for these genetic disorders won’t guarantee that a problem won’t occur in future breedings, but testing will greatly reduce the chances of problems and that is a good place to start.
If a breeder cannot provide proof in the form of veterinarian-issued certificates or reports that genetic testing has been done, the buyer should be aware that they purchase at their own risk! Caveat emptor! Breeders may claim that their dogs have never limped or that there is no need to do any testing because the breed is healthy. Some may even claim that their veterinarians have said that genetic testing was unnecessary. Those stances are irresponsible. Once again, genes are not visible and carriers of defective genes may themselves appear healthy to the naked eye. It is only with testing that we really know whether our dogs are affected or not and only then with honest evaluation of pedigrees having tested or affected dogs that the potentiality for carriers are realized.
What can we do to break the deadly Code of Silence? The majority, if not all, breed clubs have a code of ethics that require members to breed healthy dogs. One of the places to start is with the clubs. Instead of being social institutions or “good ole boy” clubs, these breed organizations could begin upholding the very real goal of protecting the future of the breed by demanding and requiring that genetic testing be undertaken prior to breeding. Far more serious than breeding a sixteen-month old bitch is the practice of breeding without taking every possible safeguard that genetic health is a priority. Yet, in many clubs “poor breeders” are identified by the age at which they breed or the frequency in which they breed rather than the very real criteria that proof of health be mandatory. Take the emphasis off winning – how many clubs determine “breeder of the year” based on the number of progeny that wins? Are there clubs that actually require that the breeder also must show proof that they are doing all they can do to ensure the future of the breed?
We can break the silence by commending those with the courage and determination to talk about problems, share successes and knowledge instead of ostracizing them. Omerta fails if every puppy buyer and stud dog user demands that proof of genetic testing is shown. The Code of Silence fails when we realize that it is not enough to breed winning dogs or to command the highest price for puppies or to have a stud dog that is used fifty, sixty, a hundred times; we must take back the passion with which we all first embraced our breeds and passionately work with determination toward a future where the numbers of genetic disorders are reduced each year.
If those you know breed without testing, ask yourself why – is it lack of courage in perhaps finding a carrier within their breeding stock? Is it because they fear a financial loss if they test? Is it because they truly believe that their dogs couldn’t possibly be less than perfect? Is it because they fear they will lose their “top breeder” standing if they admit that there are problems that need working on? Is it because they fear that it will be harder to breed beautiful and healthy dogs? Or have they lost the passion with which they first loved the breed while they were climbing the road to winning success? Or, more sadly, is it because they really just don’t care about that which they cannot actually see?
It’s hard work and takes great courage to develop a breeding program using scientific methods and tests, but the hope of a better future should drive us all to that very commitment. The key is being able to work together without fear of whispers or silence. Omerta, the code of silence, can be broken if more of us decide that we are not going to tolerate the quiet any longer.


Sicer pa se original nahaja na http://www.caninechronicle.com/features/misc/milton_404.html

Na isti strani se nahaja še nekaj njegovih odličnih člankov o realnosti vzreje in razstavljanja.


roxa

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Odgovori #27 : 20 November 2006, 15:19:23
kakšna pa je tvoja kinološka izobrazba? Si mogoče sodnica za katero od pasem ali za delo, da lahko tako vehementno sodiš o strokovnosti in profesionalnosti drugih?

ne bi o tem...sem pa na poti sodnice za molose...



BRUNO

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Odgovori #28 : 20 November 2006, 19:42:55
Mefisto, odličen in resničen članek, sem si ga prebrala v celoti!

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