PeSjanar.Si Forum

friga · **Odgovori #14730 :** 10 December 2010, 07:53:30

Ufaaa, ste napisal.

Men je še vedno enako ničjasno kot prej. ><

Tule je en dolg mail od Nat, vzrediteljice od psarne Bryning o sable barvi : (debela pisava - Nat, ki odgovarja Ann - postran pisava

)

I’ve found a picture of a sable merle whose body color is just like Tia’s. You can see it a bit further down the page on this site. http://www.caithreamkennels.com/merle_bcs.html

I know this dog, his breeder has a blue sable puppy from me J The thing is, we can safely assume that this dog is a sable merle because he has sable littermates and his mother has produced sable in other litters too.

There is a well known stud dog in the US called Borderfame True Blue and he is listed as a sable merle but he isn't; he's just a heavily tanpointed/saddle pattern blue merle. He has never produced any sable puppies. I believe Tia is the same. The best way to find out is to mate her to a tricolour dog, she is always going to produce saddle pattern but if she is a sable she should also produce sables too

I know we discussed that Tia can’t be sable due to her parentage. You told me that Easy can’t carry the sable gene since he’s a tri color / saddle and you could not see it coming from Spice’s line. However, your Rico comes out of 2 black & white parents so my theory that sable was like merle with one parent having to be merle (or in this case sable) is not right. Looking at Rico’s line I don’t see any immediate sable so where does his color come from?

Can it not be the same for Tia then or do both parents have to carry the gene and Easy definitely does not if I understood you right that the sable gene is stronger than tri so he should be sable if he had the gene? Do I make any sense?

The thing is, Quillan, Lexie and Ghost have all produced a lot of tricolour puppies between them without ever producing sable and there is a lot of tricolour in the dogs behind them so I really don’t think it can have come down to Spice. Oz is the same so I don’t think the sable in Rico came from him; Quinn on the other hand is from a line of dogs where there has been very little tricolour so the sable gene could be passed on undetected through many generations. There are very very few tricolours in Australian lines. I also know of a cousin to Quinn (same grandmother – Winpara Secret Whispers) who also produces sable puppies so I am 99% certain that this is where the sable came from in her case.

Tracking where sable comes from is hard because there is more than one set of genes controlling it so in lines where there is no recessive k to ‘switch on’ the tricolour/sable genes it’s hard to know what is there but where tricolour frequently occurs and sable doesn’t we can safely assume there is no sable gene.

Out of curiosity as well can sable be mated to sable or is it like merle that you can’t mate together? Echo is expecting pups with a sable bitch and I’m considering keeping one so I need to know a bit more about the color and what I can and can’t do so that I don’t do a wrong mating with it should I keep one.

Yes you can mate sable to sable but I would be careful doing this in lines where there is also merle since it is possible the a clear sable can mask the merle gene. There is no benefit in terms of colour in mating sable to sable though; the best combination for producing sable is a sable to tricolour mating…the puppies will all be tricoloured or sable.

sibila · **Odgovori #14731 :** 10 December 2010, 08:07:18

Meni pa je nekaj zelo zanimivo...kar naenkrat je cela množica 'barvastih' borderjev, če
pa gledam stare (stare, stare) slikice so pa skoraj vsi čb ali pa trikolorji. Tudi vsi 'znani' in popularni ISDS psi so čb ali trikolorji.

A so včasih pastirji preferirali te barve ali zakaj ni bilo tako pisanega miksa? Najbrž so z razlogom 'pridelovali' čb in trikolorje, mogoče še kakega rjavčka.

Bay · **Odgovori #14732 :** 10 December 2010, 08:15:29

Citat: sibila na 10 December 2010, 08:07:18

A so včasih pastirji preferirali te barve ali zakaj ni bilo tako pisanega miksa? Najbrž so z razlogom 'pridelovali' čb in trikolorje, mogoče še kakega rjavčka.

Koliko je dejansko res ne vem, ampak baje črna barva naredi "večji pritisk" na ovce.

deteljica · **Odgovori #14733 :** 10 December 2010, 08:19:28

Citat: Bay na 10 December 2010, 08:15:29

Koliko je dejansko res ne vem, ampak baje črna barva naredi "večji pritisk" na ovce.

Tako trdijo. Da na svetle so včasih celo črn pulover oblekli in da je bila potem avtoriteta na ovce za psa lažja.

sibila · **Odgovori #14734 :** 10 December 2010, 08:23:05

Aaaaa. No, se mi je zdelo, da bo nekaj na tem, ker res prav ostalih barv nikjer nisem videla.
Hvala!

evva · **Odgovori #14735 :** 10 December 2010, 16:50:20

Včasih tudi vzreditelji niso vzrejali BCjev za barve, kar jih danes veliko počne. Že če želiš imeti rdečo barvo se moraš potruditi in pariti psa z redčim genom.Včasih pa se angleški kmetje niso ukvarjali z genetiko in barvami ampak so parili tiste pse, k so najbolje pasli.

evva · **Odgovori #14736 :** 10 December 2010, 18:09:01

Preminil je lastnik psarne Bartolovi Dvori.Tako da se sedaj oddaja večina njegovih psov. Več o njih si lahko preberete na njegovi strani http://www.bartolovi-dvori-hr.com/

Oddaja jih Alen Marekovic lastnik psarne Mawlch http://www.bordercollie.hr/ :

"As my old friend and colleague breeder, Deda Campi, passed away, his family put me in charge of re-homing his dogs.
Some of them are quite old and we are just looking for good hands take them. Other, younger, will be sold for reasonable (in my opinion pretty low) price.
Anybody who is interested in giving a new home to any of these dogs, please let me know.
Here is the list of dogs:

2female and 1 male pups by Jim (Serge van der Zweep) and out of Bessy Bartolovi Dvori, 10 months old, all black/white/rough, details: http://bordercollie.pedigre.net/en/details.php?id=5543
The pups are only Croatian Kennel Club registered, but I believe that they could be also ISDS registered.

Ted Bartolovi Dvori (HR 10119), 3,5 years old, black-white/rough, sire: Llanfarian Tom, dam: Bessy Bartolovi Dvori, details: http://bordercollie.pedigre.net/en/details.php?id=4269

Wicky Bartolovi Dvori (HR 10161, ISDS 300112), 2 years 4 months old, female, black-white/rough, sire: Mitch (Ron Snoeck), dam: Bessy Bartolovi Dvori, details: http://bordercollie.pedigre.net/en/details.php?id=4884

Pegy Bartolovi Dvori (HR 10047), 6,5 years old, female, black-white/rough, sire: Lowland's Blacksmith Chip, dam: Mawlch Cal, details: http://bordercollie.pedigre.net/en/details.php?id=1179

Hack Bartolovi Dvori (HR 10111), 3,5 years old, male, black-white/rough, sire: Lowland's Blacksmith Chip, dam: Mawlch Cal, details: http://bordercollie.pedigre.net/en/details.php?id=4276

Mawlch Cal – Boni (HR 10011, ISDS 251023), 10,5 years old, female, black-white/rough, sire Maeglin Mac, dam: Germal Handy Lass, details: http://bordercollie.pedigre.net/en/details.php?id=860

Bessy Bartolovi Dvori (HR 10032, ISDS 269795), 8 years old, female, black-white/rough, sire: Hope of Ridgmont, dam: Mawlch Cal, details: http://bordercollie.pedigre.net/en/details.php?id=924

Amy Bartolovi dvori http://bordercollie.pedigre.net/en/details.php?id=4877 "

Nekateri so tudi izšolani za pašnjo ovac. Naprimer Bessy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGB39AxVSyI&feature=player_embedded
LP Eva

tejka_in_blyth · **Odgovori #14737 :** 12 December 2010, 16:52:36

2female and 1 male pups by Jim (Serge van der Zweep) and out of Bessy Bartolovi Dvori, 10 months old, all black/white/rough, details: http://bordercollie.pedigre.net/en/details.php?id=5543
The pups are only Croatian Kennel Club registered, but I believe that they could be also ISDS registered.

Mawlch Cal – Boni (HR 10011, ISDS 251023), 10,5 years old, female, black-white/rough, sire Maeglin Mac, dam: Germal Handy Lass, details: http://bordercollie.pedigre.net/en/details.php?id=860

Bessy Bartolovi Dvori (HR 10032, ISDS 269795), 8 years old, female, black-white/rough, sire: Hope of Ridgmont, dam: Mawlch Cal, details: http://bordercollie.pedigre.net/en/details.php?id=924

Amy Bartolovi dvori http://bordercollie.pedigre.net/en/details.php?id=4877 "

So ze oddani.

5rca · **Odgovori #14738 :** 13 December 2010, 11:34:20

Tejka, kje si t videla, da so mladiči že oddani?

Malce več o psih, ki še iščejo domove (citiram kar Alenov MSG):

Citiraj

Pegy - ne jako lijepa ali vec donekle izdadjena kuja za ovce, 6 i pol godina stara. Cini mi se jako pametna kuja.
Ted - kad taj zalaje umres od straha... bio bi odlican cuvar. Ali je inace dobrica. I mislim da ima jako dobar pasni nagon. Malo je jaci i ima crnu glavu.
Hack - e taj bi bio rodjen za agility. Noramlno visok ali lagan i skocan. I "lud". Jako mi se svidja. Ali i on je 3,5 godine star (ako i Ted).
Cica, hrvatska ovcarka, draga i umiljata. 4 godine stara.

Tri BC stenca oko 10 mjeseci stara. Dvije kujice i jedan decko. Decko je najvise okrenut na ljude... stalno ide za nekim :-). Jedna od kujica (mislim da se zove Mony) je vrlo nabrijana, stalno lovi kokosi.

sibila · **Odgovori #14739 :** 13 December 2010, 11:40:48

Jaz vem, da je zagotovo oddana Cal-Boni in pa mala hrvatica.

Pa mislim, da še dve drugi psički.

Dom pa menda še vedno iščejo papiji, tile 10 mesečni in Cica, pa še katera izmed starejših psic.

sibila · **Odgovori #14740 :** 13 December 2010, 11:42:37

A, no, sem prezrla 5rca pol tvoje od Alena točno stanje.

5rca · **Odgovori #14741 :** 13 December 2010, 11:44:04

Sem videla, da sta Boni in Rea štajerki po novem. Lepo.

sibila · **Odgovori #14742 :** 13 December 2010, 11:44:51

Citat: 5rca na 13 December 2010, 11:44:04

Sem videla, da sta Boni in Rea štajerki po novem. Lepo.

Ja, res lepo, da so ju vzeli, sploh za Boni, ki je že v letih.

rapgirl · **Odgovori #14743 :** 13 December 2010, 19:08:28

Mogoče ve kdo je tale ki ima mladiče? http://www.bolha.com/zivali-psi-pasemski/border-collie-oglas1272784928

Naj bi mel sabel mladiča tudi vmes.

kalsang · **Odgovori #14744 :** 13 December 2010, 19:13:01

Citat: rapgirl na 13 December 2010, 19:08:28

Mogoče ve kdo je tale ki ima mladiče? http://www.bolha.com/zivali-psi-pasemski/border-collie-oglas1272784928

Naj bi mel sabel mladiča tudi vmes.

http://www.pesjanar.si/forum/index.php?topic=10549.0

rapgirl · **Odgovori #14745 :** 13 December 2010, 19:14:32

Citat: kalsang na 13 December 2010, 19:13:01

http://www.pesjanar.si/forum/index.php?topic=10549.0

Sem očitno spregledala tole temo.

tejka_in_blyth · **Odgovori #14746 :** 15 December 2010, 19:03:10

Nisem vidla. Sem bila osebno v Bjelovarju v soboto.
Sem se sla poslovit od prijatelja in nesla 10kg hrane za pse, ker se mi je zdelo, da bo kar tezka vzdrzevati toliko psov.

Sem pa opazila, da sem po pomoti res vkljucila Bessy's pups. Nameravala sem pa omeniti samo mala dva sampioncka.

Torej brez "out of Bessy Bartolovi Dvori, 10 months old, all black/white/rough, details: http://bordercollie.pedigre.net/en/details.php?id=5543
The pups are only Croatian Kennel Club registered, but I believe that they could be also ISDS registered."

Citat: 5rca na 13 December 2010, 11:34:20

Tejka, kje si t videla, da so mladiči že oddani?

Malce več o psih, ki še iščejo domove (citiram kar Alenov MSG):

5rca · **Odgovori #14747 :** 15 December 2010, 19:21:49

Se zgodi.

Sem mislila, da sem zgrešila oddajo teh 10mesečnih pa sem zato Alena vprašala (ena psička iz tega legla že ima nov dom, tako da ostajata samec in samička).