Surova hrana

irenchy · 1189117

Alma

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 1.487
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #570 : 19 Avgust 2010, 18:01:17
Ne morem, da ne bi. Kaj bi recimo ob Amazonki, če govorimo dolgoročno, jedla? Banane, avokado in ananas? Metulje, komarje in muhe? Al bi bile une grde scufane napol divje kure tudi ok? Samo tako vprašam.
Btw, ker so že konji omenjeni, za Peru vem, da je "cel greh" konja pojest in so se zgražali, ko sem rekla, kako se tu celo žrebeta je... Toliko o tem.

ne živim tam, živim v slo...vsi mi vsaj sedaj živo v slo ali  ;) in imamo veliko različne hrane na izbiro ...niti ne vem kaj bi imela tam vse za izbor...sigurno pa ne bi jedla kure...
pravilno, vsaj po mojem...konj vsekakor ni za meso, kakor koli gledam to bitje ni in ne bi smelo bit namenjeno tudi za meso...pa da dodam človek, ki poje konjsko meso je zame ... ne bom uporabila take besede


Taar

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 994
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #571 : 19 Avgust 2010, 18:13:37
Glede preseravanja z meskom in fileji in lososi...

Ko začneš, še nimaš vez, ne poznaš klavnic/mesarjev. Ti kontakti pridejo sčasoma. Kot vidimo tu, en med pogovorom zve za enega ali drugega mesarja, drugi nalepi link of Nimroda, tretji se znajde in se v privat mesnivci zmeni za kake eksotične dele...  

Pač na začetku moraš več kupovati, s tem ni nič narobe. Predvsem tisti z večjimi psi se hitro znajdejo in mislimn, da bodo kmalu prišli na polovico cene hrane v briketih. Jaz imam 2 manjša psa, ki nista nek strošek v prehrani (in mi ni bil problem kupovati najdražjih briketov), ampak se znajdem. Ne vem, mogoče na mesec porabim 20 evrov za hrano za oba?

Enkrat so me v klavnici preveč dobesedno vzeli in so mi ZASTONJ dali cel pritljažnik delov, ki niso apetitlih. In sem potem malo zalagala kolege na tekmah, ker jaz sem imela hrane za 2 meseca zastonj. KUpim tisto, kar rabim, da zapolnim in dobim prava razmerja. Recimo v klavnicah ne dobim skoraj nič svinjskega, zato grem to kupit, ampak imamo krasen mesni center tu v Novem mestu, kjer dobiš od prašičkov kar hočeš. Pa vseeno kupim 2 vreči zadev in plačam 7 evrov. Za pocrkat res. Ne vem, nogice, repki, hrbti, prsne kosti  - to je tam okrog 0.60 eur/kg. Celo krača je zelo poceni., pa kaka ledvička, malo možganov in kak kos piščanca, kar je v akciji. Pa omega 3 olje kupim, ampak sem ga spet v akciji trofnla.

S stricom sem zmenjena za zajčje glave, potem pa pri sorodnikih v Beli krajini sem zmenjena, da ko vzamejo jagenjčka ali prašička za na žar, meni vzamejo organe. Kar se drugače meče stran in celo zakopava! To je zastonj, seveda.  Kar pa je preseravanje je količina teh jagenjčkov za na žar. Gor gre cel, potem pa ogromno ostane, bolj takih koščenih delov. Žal vse do amena presoljeno, ni glih za pse in se vse zmeče stran. To pa je preseravanje. Če bi istega jagenjčka pred peko malo bolj pametno narezali, bi lahko ostalo za moje pse za en mesec hrane (ostankov), pa gre pač vse v koš. Meni je ful žal, ko to razmetavanje gledam...

In potem vidim fotke najdenih psov ali psov iz keten, ki sem jim vsa rebra preštejejo in se znajdejo v zavetiščih. Če se bi se lastniki malo znašli, čeprav nimajo veliko niti zase, bi te pse lahko hranili praktično zastonj!

Po drugi strani pa ja, za svoje živali so ljudje pripravljenu kupiti VSE. Samo poglej koliko spletnih trgovin je za igrače, priboljške, da ne govorim za celo škodljive dodatke k prehrani. A to pa ni preseravanje? Ne vem, neka igračka stane toliko kot mene hrana za dva psa za cel mesec. Jaz svoje igrače naredim sama, kupljene itak ne palijo. Po svoji navadi sem kupila edino eno celo ovčjo kožo in iz nje delam igrače. Tako malo bolj grdo, za celih 5 evrov so mi jo dali...



Yo

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 1.920
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #572 : 19 Avgust 2010, 18:44:00
ne živim tam, živim v slo...vsi mi vsaj sedaj živo v slo ali  ;) in imamo veliko različne hrane na izbiro ...niti ne vem kaj bi imela tam vse za izbor...sigurno pa ne bi jedla kure...
pravilno, vsaj po mojem...konj vsekakor ni za meso, kakor koli gledam to bitje ni in ne bi smelo bit namenjeno tudi za meso...pa da dodam človek, ki poje konjsko meso je zame ... ne bom uporabila take besede


Ajej... Komentar je letel na debato okoli lova na divje živali, ki se je nanašala na slike tistih DA... Al spet beremo selektivno...


Nika

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 2.826
    • Točke: 4
  • Buda
Odgovori #573 : 19 Avgust 2010, 19:52:59
Mislim, da je Lanabela s preseravanjem imela v mislih mene, ko sem par strani nazaj omenila, da imam namen vzrejat. Sem že takrat imela v kokošnjaku 12 piščancev, za katere sem tri mesece zgledno skrbela in čeprav sem čisto podeželsko dekle, ki je bilo vedno navzoče pri klanju, mi sami ni uspelo opravit dela. Smo jih naložili v avto in peljali k znancem na farmo, kjer imajo posebno mašinco (giljotina stil), ki brez hujših psihičnih pretresov dokonča umazano delo. Spucani piščeti tehtajo od 3,5 - 4kg  8), eden je res namenjen psoma, ostali bodo pa kar za humano uporabo. Sta psa čist zadovoljna s 12 glavami in 24 krempeljčki  ;D



Taar

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 994
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #574 : 19 Avgust 2010, 20:01:37
Nika, to se ne sliši kot preseravanje, to se sliši kot trdo delo!

Moji psi so 100%  fovš za krempeljce in glave !!! (mmmmm, omega 3 možgančki...)



Jean

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 2.324
    • Točke: 6
Odgovori #575 : 19 Avgust 2010, 20:26:09
Kaj pomeni preseravanje?  ??? Ne najdem v slovarju.  :-\

Jaz sem pred kratkim začela svojim dati surovo govejo meso nekajkrat na teden. Dobim pri mesarju za ca. 1€/kg, veliko manj stane kot brikete (Orijen ali Acana), mešam z rižem ali pašto ali manj kakovostnimi briketami, ki jih dobim zastonj na tekmah za nagrado. Tako sem začela delati, ker se mi zdi da je dobro in zdravo za pse, stroškov za hrano pa imam toliko manj. Torej win win situation.



Desobediencia

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 1.107
    • Točke: 2
Odgovori #576 : 19 Avgust 2010, 20:43:34
En dober je tudi Fast food nation.
Drugace pa imamo prvo jajce :o

Dogo Argentino - El Mas Mejor

Nochi tlen onca no huelitli mo patlaz, xic cualmeztli mo mantica, moyolica, inic ti nemiz inahuac yeliztli.


Nika

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 2.826
    • Točke: 4
  • Buda
Odgovori #577 : 19 Avgust 2010, 20:57:39
Drugace pa imamo prvo jajce :o

Uživaj v okusu! se nikakor ne more primerjat s kupljenimi. Tud naša prva psica je točno poznala razliko, domača jajca si je sama kradla, kupljenega niti pogledala ni  :)

Jean, kar je nad mejo potreb je preseravanje. Zapravljanje denarja za nenujne stvari. Namesto, da si nekdo kupi eno normalno prevozno sredstvo, ker ga v današnjem času res rabi, si raje kupi hummerja, ki mu praktično nič ne nuca, sam preserava se z njim. Vsaj js to tako razumem.



Nika

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 2.826
    • Točke: 4
  • Buda
Odgovori #578 : 19 Avgust 2010, 21:04:36
Nika, to se ne sliši kot preseravanje, to se sliši kot trdo delo!

Moji psi so 100%  fovš za krempeljce in glave !!! (mmmmm, omega 3 možgančki...)

Seveda trdo delo, jih nisem folgala futrat  ;D

Bi bilo pa to preseravanje, če bi jih redila sam za pse. Jih pa v bistvu za moje veselje, je fajn gor spravit leglo piščkov. Al pa zajčkov, ki pridejo verjetno zdej na vrsto, ko smo spraznili kapacitete. Delamo zimsko zalogo  ;)



Taar

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 994
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #579 : 19 Avgust 2010, 21:05:08
Kaj pomeni preseravanje? 
Colloquial. Da delaš stvari, ki so čisto nepotrebni luksuz, samo zato, ker lahko. Več kot bi bilo potrebno. Da npr. psu daješ telečjo prsno pečenko.

Drgač pa jean, poskusi najti kako lokalno klavnico, jaz tako dobim cel prtljažnik zastonj stvari, ki niso za ljudi  zaželjene, npr gullets, tracheas, anything cartilage, organs.

Pa pazi, če daješ le meso in še hidrate, si v prebitkju s fosforjem in premalo kalcija. ker ima samo meso in tudi hidrati veliko fosforja in malo kalcija. Briketi malo pomagajo, ampak poskusi dajati velike koščene kose, za vnos kalcija + zobno higieno. Najceneje jaz dobim svinjske ali telečje hrbte, prsne kosti, včasih celo zastonj.



Yo

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 1.920
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #580 : 19 Avgust 2010, 21:42:51
Deso, a mate tiste čudne kure na dolgih golih tacah, vse ščupane, precej velike? Pol jim postriž perje, ker tole odleti nekam tja daleč... Niso glih kot naše kure...


Lanabela

  • Pravi Pesjanar
  • ****
    • Prispevkov: 7.316
    • Točke: 48
Odgovori #581 : 20 Avgust 2010, 11:28:13
S preseravanjem nisem mislila niti Taar, ki zelo pametno pridobiva hrano za svoje pse, niti Niko, ki se je za pasje veselje fejst potrudila (tudi naši psi so že kdaj jedli cele znešene kure, samo da mi jih je kmetica prej zaklala - se mi res ni dalo vlačiti živih okrog). Pravzaprav se niti ne spomnim kdo vse se je spakoval pri mesu za pse in se mi niti ne zdi pomembno.
Kar se pa tiče konjskega mesa pa...se nekateri turisti se zelo zgražajo, podobno kot recimo naši v aziji nad pasjimi pečenkami. Ampak žrebičkov zrezek pa hočejo poskusiti tako rekoč vsi, ki niso zapriseženi vegetarijanci. Tako kot naši turisti, ki so si zaželi pasji golaž v neki zakotni vietnamski vasi - in ga tudi dobili. Pa so potem iz cele vasi hodili gledat, kaj so zdaj to zaeni čudni tiči, ki jedo pse - ker pri njih to sploh ni bilo v navadi.
Al pa ena avstralka, ki se je zgražala - kako to slovenci lahko konje jedo, ko imajo pa ja lipicanca za simbol. Pa jo je njen fant hitro zabil, da imajo oni tudi kenguruja za simbol, pa ga vseeno jedo.

Yo, saj tudi naše kure, tiste taprave kmečke (kjer jih še premorejo) kure, ki se čisto prosto pasejo tudi dobro letijo. Ne moreš verjeti kako visoko po drevju se spravijo spat.


Yo

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 1.920
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #582 : 20 Avgust 2010, 13:11:34
Ja, vem, da letijo  :) Sam glih čist odletijo pa ne  ;D


Fero

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 168
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #583 : 20 Avgust 2010, 14:25:10
Najceneje jaz dobim svinjske ali telečje hrbte, prsne kosti, včasih celo zastonj.

Taar, a to vprašaš v mesnici? Kaj niso svinjski hrbti za zrezke, kotlete pa to...



Taar

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 994
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #584 : 20 Avgust 2010, 17:02:08
Jaz imam izkušnjo s telečjimi in svinjskimi hrbti. (Mesni center Ave od Panvite, mogoče je to to v Ljubljani: http://www.panvita.si/si/vsebina/trgovine/mesni-centri )

Med svinjskimi kostmi so bile vse narezane zelo na majhne dele. Pa sem rekla, če imajo kaj takih kosti nezrezanih. Je mesar rekel, da ima cele hrbte nezrezane odzadaj. Prinesel, prerezal na pol in to je to. V bistvu je meso izrezano ven, tisti mehki srednji del, ki je za pečenke/zrezke. Je pa še kar nekaj gor in niso gole kosti.
http://www.porkfoodservice.org/Cuts.aspx?c=412A

Ali pa tule pod 412, 412a, 412c in 412d
http://www.porkfoodservice.org/CutsByCategory.aspx?c=Loin

Enkrat so imeli pod 'rebra za prekajevanje', po en evro. Podobna zadeva.

Potem so pa še svinjski repi, nogice (okoli 0.69 eur)  ali krača (okoli 2.50 eur, s kožo vred). 



Desobediencia

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 1.107
    • Točke: 2
Odgovori #585 : 20 Avgust 2010, 19:35:37
Deso, a mate tiste čudne kure na dolgih golih tacah, vse ščupane, precej velike? Pol jim postriž perje, ker tole odleti nekam tja daleč... Niso glih kot naše kure...
Hm, jih bom poslikala. Imajo daljse tace od teh v Sloveniji, tamlajse niti niso scupane, starejse so pa skoraj nage. Zaenkrat se nimajo nekih letalnih podvigov, samo moramo izpust povecat in dobro zascitit, ker se mi Piray in par Jazbecarjev stalno tam okrog motajo. Odraslih D.A. sploh ne ganejo (niti tri race, ki so posebej in so bolj tko same sebi namen), tamladim so pa cist prevec mikavne. Madici jih pa cist iz firbca gledajo in ker bojo od malega z njimi, ne bo problemov.

Imam eno sliko Kuki, ki ji je bilo na sliki bolj pomembno da tiste brikete na tleh poje pred perjadjo ;D



Samo tole na sliki niso nase kure, je pri prijateju na kmetiji slikano.


Dogo Argentino - El Mas Mejor

Nochi tlen onca no huelitli mo patlaz, xic cualmeztli mo mantica, moyolica, inic ti nemiz inahuac yeliztli.


Fero

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 168
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #586 : 20 Avgust 2010, 22:58:53
Danes bila v mesnici po ostanke, vprašala sem za svinjske hrbte in tri ure poslušala, da svinjsko meso ni dobro za pse, da se je celo on (mesar) vrezal v roko in pil antibiotike... po treh urah odnehala... bom probala v drugi mesnici.
Prišel paket od Nimroda, fuuul dobro... skrinja polna za cel mesec in to za 24 EUR. Ne morem verjeti...



EnNa

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 421
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #587 : 20 Avgust 2010, 23:02:53
Tudi mi smo danes dobili paket od Nimroda pa ga ne Nara ne Nisha ne marata :'( Energy in Minu sicer jesta divjačino ampak tudi ne s takšnim veseljem kot recimo piščanca :( Nisha je meso kar ven pljunila >:(
Ima kdo podobne izkušnje? Res mi je škoda, da ne jedo divjačine...

Bolj kot spoznavam ljudi, bolj ljubim pse (CHAMFORT)
"Šele, ko boste posekali zadnje drevo, zastrupili zadnjo reko, ulovili zadnjo ribo, šele takrat boste spoznali, da denarja ne morete jesti...
http://www.youtube.com/user/vabavaimu


Fero

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 168
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #588 : 20 Avgust 2010, 23:08:53
Probaj tako, da mu ponudiš, če ne je, umakneš in čez nekaj časa ponovi. Mogoče je samo to, da je drugačno...
Jaz moram reči, da še nisem naletela na hrano, ki jo ne bi moj labi jedel, tole z divjačino, pa je noro, še tri ure je lizal travo.



Yo

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 1.920
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #589 : 20 Avgust 2010, 23:14:13
Tudi mi smo danes dobili paket od Nimroda pa ga ne Nara ne Nisha ne marata :'( Energy in Minu sicer jesta divjačino ampak tudi ne s takšnim veseljem kot recimo piščanca :( Nisha je meso kar ven pljunila >:(
Ima kdo podobne izkušnje? Res mi je škoda, da ne jedo divjačine...

Dej, če ti ne bojo jedli, bi jaz odkupla za svoje.


Taar

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 994
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #590 : 20 Avgust 2010, 23:24:54
Glede divjačine: mojadva vse jesta, edino ene parkrat je bil vmes malo večji kos, sem si rekla, u, kaka lepa mišica in ga je Tara samo z nosom odrivala. Sem vzela in dala naslednji dan. Isto. Ni jedla 24 ur, ker ji drugega nisem dala, potem sem ji dala nekaj drugega. Pje je pojedel, tara pa kot da ni hrana. ne vem, kaj je to. No sicer vse ostalo, ta drobne koščke, to pa poje. Ma dobro, za 6 eur ne gledam, ker se tak kos redko zgodi.



EnNa

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 421
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #591 : 21 Avgust 2010, 00:21:47
Probaj tako, da mu ponudiš, če ne je, umakneš in čez nekaj časa ponovi. Mogoče je samo to, da je drugačno...
Jaz moram reči, da še nisem naletela na hrano, ki jo ne bi moj labi jedel, tole z divjačino, pa je noro, še tri ure je lizal travo.

Fero to sem že probala-se ne pustim prelisičit tako zlahka :D Zavrnili sta zgodaj pop, ko sem meso rezala (ok, sem si mislila, da itak še nista lačni), potem sem probala proti večeru (ko je čas za njihov obrok) in še slabo uro nazaj pa razen enkrat, ko je Nisha ven pljunila mesa sploh nista dali v usta... Sta pa obe lačni, ko hudič ker kar okoli hodita kje bo kaj za pojesti... (Nisha je še solato zajcem ukradla :D ::))

Čez vikend nas ni tako, da bodo na briketih v pon in torek bom spet poskusila. Če cel dan v pon ne bosta jedli in potem še v torek ne, jima pač divjačine ne bom več ponujala :-\

Dej, če ti ne bojo jedli, bi jaz odkupla za svoje.
Te bom imela v mislih, če bomo vse to prepočasi jedli ;) Pripeljal je pa 18kg tako, da smo morali še k "tašči" spravit, ker najin zmrzovalnik še zdaleč ne sledi novim zahtevam pasje prehrane :D :D

Bolj kot spoznavam ljudi, bolj ljubim pse (CHAMFORT)
"Šele, ko boste posekali zadnje drevo, zastrupili zadnjo reko, ulovili zadnjo ribo, šele takrat boste spoznali, da denarja ne morete jesti...
http://www.youtube.com/user/vabavaimu


Jamsi

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 497
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #592 : 21 Avgust 2010, 11:53:32
Pripeljal je pa 18kg tako, da smo morali še k "tašči" spravit, ker najin zmrzovalnik še zdaleč ne sledi novim zahtevam pasje prehrane :D :D

Tudi moj ne, bo treba počas za večjega zamenjat  :D



Alma

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 1.487
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #593 : 21 Avgust 2010, 11:56:48
moji so tudi na začetku bolj z rezervo jedli...vzami stran in ponudi ponovno, bo delovalo
škoda bi bilo, če takega zdravega mesa ne bi dobili

jaz imam zdaj velik zmrzovalni, 80% zaseda meso za pse  :D



Lanabela

  • Pravi Pesjanar
  • ****
    • Prispevkov: 7.316
    • Točke: 48
Odgovori #594 : 21 Avgust 2010, 14:49:06
Lahko samo malo pokuhaš, toliko da diši, notri je pa še surovo.


Taar

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 994
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #595 : 21 Avgust 2010, 18:11:38
Ko smo debatirali o tem, kako je surovo prehranjevanje modno, le trend, na forumu za surovo je ena gospa objavila tole. Med brskanjem po starih knjigah njenih staršev je našla knjigo vzrediteljice bostonskih terierjev iz leta 1936. Torej za primer nekoga, ki ni bil reven in se je s psi profesionalno ukvarjal:

Funny you should mention this as I just found an old booklet called 'A Dog's
Life From Puppyhood to Old Age' in my parent's musty basement.
The book was published in 1936 by Josephine Z. Rine who appears to be an
'expert' breeder.
Anyway, in the 'What Should I Feed Him' chapter I was elated to find that she
advocated heart meat for 14 cents per pound:-P, brisket hamburger and all
meat/egg diet. She writes, "it is unnecessary to buy fancy cuts of either meat
or fish for the dog. The plain, less popular kinds will do exactly as well. In
fact, the man who boasts of the round steak Fido ate is a foolish man, while the
one who feeds brisket or neck is wise. But be sure that the flesh is sweet and
fresh and turn a deaf ear to that famous old bogie advising "tainted meat for
dogs". Poor beasts, they profit by it no more surely than you and I.
Also interesting, "The dog owner can improvise on these meals to his heart's
content and he should improvise so that the dog does not get exactly the same
food day after day."
I loved the simplicity of the message and find it still sage today.



Taar

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 994
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #596 : 21 Avgust 2010, 20:01:23
Še nekaj iz starih knjig o hrani psov:


History of Feeding (Part I)


By Lew Olson • March 2005 Newsletter
iz strani:
http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/history-of-feeding-part-i/?main_page=Mar2005.php

One of my hobbies is collecting vintage books on canine nutrition. I have decided to share some excerpts from these books, to help give everyone ideas on how people fed their dogs before the invention of commercial dog food, and their philosophy and reasoning behind it. I hope you all enjoy these excerpts. Please give me feedback if you would like to see this type of content continue in future newsletters. Please note, most all dog fanciers fed a raw diet before the onset of World War II and these authors are addressing the care of show and breeding dogs. They are also addressing the early experimentation with “dog biscuit,” which was the first use of commercial dog foods made as today, mostly of starches and grains. Enjoy!

The Care and Feeding of Dogs
by Josephine Z. Rine

1936, Grosset and Dunlap.
I have a wonderful book on Canine Nutrition from 1936. It is called The Care and Feeding of Dogs, by Josephine Zine, and she showed and bred Boston Terriers, and wrote for the American Kennel Club Gazette. She states in her forward that she wrote several articles on feeding dogs for the Gazette and was encouraged to write a book. This book was written before commercial dry dog food, although they did have ‘bisquits.’ I will warn you, she is not a ‘bisquit’ believer and feeds a raw diet, and has fascinating comments on meat, grains and vegetables. She also lists diets for dogs and puppies, and one of the biggest problems with meat in the 30’s was storage, as these times were during ‘iceboxes’, rather than refrigerators or freezers.

Here are her ideas on feeding quantities for dogs:
“The size of a dog cannot be regarded as the only consideration in naming the amount of food he requires. Of course, a Sheperd will need more than a Peke. His stomach is larger and his body surface is greater, thus a cupful, which would be a satisfying meal for a Peke, would be but a sample for the smallest Shepherd. Given a small Boston Terrier and a large Peke of identical weight total, and you will find that the former requires a larger amount of food than the latter. Why? Because the Boston is more active and more nervously alert than the self-contained mite from China. The added drain of the Peke’s heavy coat, against the thin satin finish of the Boston, is further proof that disposition is as important a factor in determining correct nutrition as is the actual amount of food consumed.”
Her opinion on meat in the diet (page 48-49):
“Man is constantly warned against using too large a proportion of meat as his protein quota, being advised to substitute other forms of protein instead. With dogs, the situation is quite different, for with them it seems almost impossible to feed too much meat to young, strong and active canine.
The dog, in his natural state, was a meat-eating animal, living entirely on the products of his kill. There was a time, ages ago, when there were no vegetables or other foods than meat and greens and berries. This state of affairs, far from bothering the dog, made a perfect animal of him. He was fit then to bring down his quarry after miles and miles of chase, and eat the whole of it or at least as much as he liked. Nature meant him to eat meat, and though today he is probably as different from his source as man from his, the fact remains that his chief fund of nourishment should the same, namely meat.
The object of mixing other foods with meat is because of the necessary
laxative qualities of the complementing substances. Long ago when the dog had his freedom and was continually on the move, those additional foods were not as necessary, but now his more sheltered existence and easier life demand the protection of the laxative properties to assist in the cleansing of the systems impurities.”
And from page 50:
“Fish and meat together are the greatest of disease resisters, seeming to fortify the system against the invasion of serious inroads. And when trouble does come the way of a meat eater, it is easy to see how much better he fights the infection than his less fortunate brother who has been fed differently.
The other proteins, milk and eggs, have come into dog usage gradually and these have their staunch adherents and their objectors. They are needed, however, badly needed, in all dog work, and can now be digested with little trouble. They constitute a beneficial change of flavor to the usual round of tin pan offerings, and they bring to the system elements of nourishment that cannot very well be done without.”
Another interesting book is “Commonsense and Secrets of Dog-Feeding”, by R. E Nicholas, 1936 (originally 1905, but this is the 18th edition), Toogood & Sons, LTD, Southhampton, England. I have little information on this author, simply that his nickname was “Great Dane”.
His ideas on meat:
“The instinctive desire a normal dog has for meat is a sure indication that is really required for nutritive processes, while its indifference to some other food materials is evidence of their less worth for nourishment. The prevalent notion that meat is harmful or unnecessary is idiotic and cruel; and to deprive a dog of meat foods is to go against nature.”
And on bones in the diet:
“Raw bones consist largely of mineral matter, with some fat and protein, and suffice alone for the prolonged nutrition of dogs, which generally relish them keenly. They have been aptly described as “the dog’s tooth brush”, and their use in moderation is essential, though too frequent feeding with them prematurely wears away the teeth. Preference must always be given to soft or porous bones that can easily be crushed. Dense, hard ones needlessly wear out the teeth without cleaning them. Bones should seldom be fed when the stomach is empty, but rather after a meal.”
And on bacteria:
“The fact that many dogs eat putrid meat without apparent injury is evidence that the effect of habit confers considerable immunity, but not that putrid meat is a desirable food. The system of a carnivorous animal naturally craves flesh-food in some form; and dogs will eat decomposing meat rather than go without flesh altogether, but if given sufficiently liberal rations of fresh meat, they refuse anything badly tainted.”
On bisquit (kibble in those days):
“That some dogs will eat dog-biscuits is no reason for giving them nothing else. A man can eat ‘hard tack’, but he would not relish it as a whole diet or thrive very well on it either. Broadly speaking a dog will eat anything; but owners who feed their dogs on ‘anything’ seldom make a success of the kennel business.”
As to carbohydrates, he states:
“Dogs receiving palatable, varied and digestible rations containing liberal quantities of protein of animal origin grow more rapidly, and have stronger, larger bone and more vigorous organs that those fed mainly on starchy, carbonaceous foods, so that the rations of breeding stock should be mainly nitrogenous and consist largely of meat.”



Taar

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 994
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #597 : 21 Avgust 2010, 20:02:32
History of Feeding (Part II)

By Lew Olson • April 2005 Newsletter
This month we will continue with more excerpts from vintage books on feeding dogs. I have had some requests for recipes and diets from these books, and I will post them in the last article in this series. I do want to remind you that those recipes are not meant to be used. They are simply as a comparison to see some of the methods used at that time.
Please note that I am reproducing these book excerpts to show how people thought and how they approached dog nutrition at the turn of the century. It gives good ‘food for thought’ on current ideas of feeding dogs from that time to the present. Any feedback is welcomed on these articles and I will consider any suggestions for specific areas you would like to see reproduced in this series.

This first excerpt is from The Care and Feeding of Dogs, by Joesphine Z. Rine, 1936, Grosset and Dunlap.
This section addresses the nutritional needs of dogs, their digestive system and the need for variety. (Page 74-76)
“The fact that the dog belongs to the class none as Carnivora should be indicative enough of what he should eat. Carnivora does not mean the ability to digest this part or that part of the meat kingdom. It means specifically flesh devouring; and flesh means meat as distinct from vegetable. Thus, the Carnivora are considered as those endowed by nature with the ability to consume all animal flesh, muscular tissue, glandular organs and every single part.
“The dog’s meat supply may be called perfect only when it includes as great a variety as it is possible to obtain. A man may claim that his dog is as fit as fit can be after a puppy hood of raw beef feeding; or another may hail liver or lamb as the sole reason for his dog’s good condition. Both contenders may be right at that, and both may be wrong, for a case here or there is not proof at all. The dog’s system, no less than the human’s, is a wonderful machine, adapting itself willingly to anything it can get. This, though, should be no indication that we possess the right to tamper with that adapting propensity. Because one or two or even three dogs grow robust upon a single kind of food, is no criterion for the race. Even a single generation is no criterion. Nature is slow to make her demands known and will suffer in silence for years sometimes before giving vent to signs of her displeasure. But that sign will come once her patience is exhausted, and it comes most usually along the lines of reproduction. Nature says emphatically that if conditions are not right for the present generation, there shall be none to follow. That is why the reproductive organs are the first to be affected by adverse conditions of feeding, housing and general care.
“In order to find out with any degree of success whether or not the methods in operation are right or wrong, it is necessary to record the performance of dogs through a long period of time, using not one but several generations as a check. Here is where full production records, including weights and numbers of puppies, the percentage of each litter raised, the age at which some have died, together with the causes therefore, and facts of this nature are the sole means of finding just where we are at. Snap judgments will not do. Nature, herself, acts slowly to give us time, as it were, to correct our methods before the crash comes. Records will serve to show tendencies one way or another so that we may forestall happenings that should not happen.
“Variety of meat does not mean, as one breeder insisted upon interpreting the term, feeding two or three kinds of meat at one meal, or even in a single day. It means rather sensible rotation of beef, heart, liver and fish for instance over a thirty day period, or a weekly menu that provides at least two different kinds of meat within that time.”
This excerpt is from Commonsense and Secrets of Dog-Feeding by R. E. Nicholas, 1905, Toogood & Sons, LTD, South Hampton, England.
He addresses the basic food needs of dogs and his reasoning for this: (Page 12)
“The object of feeding is to supply the animal with the various elements entering into its composition and it is obvious that a diet consisting of the animal body and its products must contain all the constituents required for the growth and maintenance of the animal body and its products. There is no doubt, too, that the intelligence and “life” of an animal depend largely on its proper nourishment. What corn is to the domesticated horse, meat is to the dog, and we cannot rationally expect in dogs fed wholly on farinaceous (starchy foods) foods the highest development of intelligence, courage and endurance, and the liveliness of temperament so greatly to be desired.
“Meat and bones, too, appease hunger more thoroughly than vegetable foods. They stay by a dog longer, and so keep it more contented. Moreover, they tend to produce firmness of muscle and increase of frame with an absence of superfluous fat, while vegetable foods increase the deposition of fat. Dogs fed mainly or entirely on farinaceous foods may put on flesh, but their system becomes weakened and predisposed to disease. Excessive use of farinaceous feeding-stuffs especially of such as contain sugar, impairs fertility, somewhat increases the dangers of parturition (birth) by lowering the vitality of the bitch, and tends to the production of small puppies lacking in stamina, while a nitrogenous diet (animal protein) favours profligacy and the production of healthy, vigorous offspring. It may also be added that vegetable foods need very thorough cooking to rupture their starch-cells, and that on the whole they excite the vital powers and processes to a less degree than do animal foods. This stimulating effect of foods upon the vital functions is a factor of importance in maintaining the best health and condition. The contrast in activity and muscular vigour between carnivorous animals is generally marked, and on the whole, there seems to be no reasonable doubt that a meat diet contributes more than any other ration to the development of strength and energy. The quaint traditional conception that a meat diet inclines dogs to ferocity and ungovernable temper is, or course, absurd. In point of fact, abundance of meat insures complete nourishment, and so tend to make dogs docile and contented.
“Systematic experiments have shown that, while dogs can be kept in perfect health for an indefinite time on meat alone, they cannot exist for long on an exclusive diet of starch, thus furnishing for such as require it incontestable evidence that the still common system of feeding dogs mainly on starchy vegetable products and fresh vegetables invites debility and so opens the door to disease.”
And the last excerpt is from Diet for Dogs, by George Watson Little, DVM, 1929 New York, Robert M McBride and Company. Here is Dr Little’s thoughts on dog nutrition needs:
“Unfortunately education regarding rations for dogs has not progressed so far. Through penury, ignorance, superstition, hearsay and carelessness, the stomach of the large majority of canines have been woefully mistreated. The popular idea that a dog is a sort of an animated garbage can capable of subsisting on foraged odds and ends or the scraps thrown to him is extremely erroneous. To be true some dogs are forced to accommodate themselves to such an existence, but obviously well-bred animals are too delicate to withstand this life for long. Indeed, it is often difficult to make them hardy specimens with undeviating care and attention.



Datelj

  • *
    • Prispevkov: 395
    • Točke: 0
Odgovori #598 : 22 Avgust 2010, 01:03:37
Uau, pa je zašla debata tudi v moralne sfere...  ::)

Osebno sem zelo hvaležna mesarjem, da namesto nas koljejo živali in pripravljajo meso, da se mi s tem ne rabimo ukvarjati. Res pa je, da bi pojedli precej manj mesa, če bi ga morali sami rediti in klati. Večina bi se nas pa verjetno prav hitro navadila na oboje. Če bi meni pred tremi leti nekdo rekel, da bom sposobna razrezat celega piščanca, kaj šele ga sčistit, ne bi verjela. Zdaj pa mi verjetno ne bi bil problem niti zajca odret/očistit, morda celo kaj večjega. Če je mrtvo, bom komot razrezala. Mogoče bi celo lahko kure klala, kaj pa vem.

Preseravala sem se pri pasjem mesu med drugim jaz.  :D Sem kupovala ekološko pridelano meso za psa, ampak v moj zagovor takrat pes ni bil zdrav, ideja je bila se izognit pesticidom/antibiotikom, pa še razlika v ceni za isti kos mesa je bila le 30 centov/kg. Da ne govorim, kako sem tu in tam kupovala v trgovini kose konjskega mesa, pa jagnjetino in kunca, ker nisem vedela, kje drugje vzeti. Tako da ja, preden pogruntaš finte, kako priti do finega, poceni, za ljudi "odpadnega" mesa, se mimogrede preseravaš. Saj sem se norca delala iz sebe, češ pes mi je eko meso, sama pa kupujem konvencionalno pridelano, ker je eko predrago. S tem, da ga jaz pojem recimo 1 kg na teden, pes pa 1 kg na dan. Ampak če recimo hraniš 2-kilsko čivavo, ki rabi max. 100g mesa na dan, postane preseravanje povsem drug pojem, finančno gledano. Obrok lososa za čivavo ali za švicarja ni ravno primerljivo...

Sicer pa, Lanabela, ja, jaz bi bila zelo zadovoljna že s tem, da vzreditelj hrani zelo raznovrstno, kar naj potem absolutno vključuje ne le različne vrste briketov in konzerv, ampak tudi kuhano in surovo hrano, človeško hrano, itd. Se mi zdi tvoja filozofija glede tega zelo fajn. Če pa hrani izključno s surovim mesom, super, pa še to naj bo čimbolj raznoliko, čimveč vrst mesa, da ni potem problemov.

The mantra of the puppy owner: we'll all live through this. We'll all live through this. We'll all live through this.
The mantra of the puppy: NO!

- Sue Ailsby


Lanabela

  • Pravi Pesjanar
  • ****
    • Prispevkov: 7.316
    • Točke: 48
Odgovori #599 : 22 Avgust 2010, 10:35:55
Če je pes bolan in rabi hrano take kvalitete, se ne preseravaš.
Je pa včasih res malo čudno, posebej pri cenejših delih mesa...ko sem kupovala purana za zelo staro psico v jatini tovarniški štacuni, je bilo treba krače naročiti in rezervirati vsaj en teden prej, ker so jih sicer takoj pobrali upokojenci in drugi reveži. Moram reči, da mi je bilo malo zoprno nesti ven 10 kil krač za psa, uni so pa ostali brez ene ali dveh za cel teden...